logo
Archive

Can Two Surge Protectors In One Outlet

author
Paul Gonzalez
• Friday, 06 November, 2020
• 26 min read

Is it a bad idea to load this much in one socket, or is it just a matter of what the circuit for the entire room can handle? If you have a fairly modern house, the circuit breakers are probably 20 amps.

modular surge protector usb outlets ports power ac cube delivers gadgetsin pack flexibly strip
(Source: gadgetsin.com)

Contents

This will limit the load from your devices to the 10 amps of the first surge protector circuit breaker and prevents overloading the outlet. Is it a bad idea to load this much in one socket, or is it just a matter of what the circuit for the...

It's likely your outlets are connected to a 12 Gage wire and a 20 amp breaker. As long as you don't draw more than 20 amps you won't trip the breaker.

Surge protectors, as you can guess from the name, protect electronics from power surges and spikes, which are sudden increases in voltage. Electronics like a steady stream of pressure coming from the source, but when a sudden surge of pressure comes barreling through, it can overwhelm electronics and result in damage.

Regular power strips just provide extra reach and outlets. As for extension cords, they’re a bit simpler and a more common in households.

Of course, a big question you might have is whether surge protectors and extension cords can peacefully coexist, and the answer is: technically, yes, but you shouldn’t. The biggest thing is making sure the extension cord can handle the same amount of load as the surge protector (or more).

surge wall protector outlet mount power belkin protectors mounted pivot distribution
(Source: nerdtechy.com)

Otherwise, you risk putting too much load on the extension cord and creating a fire hazard for yourself. At the end of the day, though, it’s actually not recommended using an extension cord for anything more than temporary use, mostly because you risk subjecting the extension cord to prolonged wear and tear for which it’s not designed.

Furthermore, as mentioned in the previous section, the extra connections where you plug your extension cords into one another are added failure points that don’t really need to be there in the first place. So adding on another surge protector to that will just create another problem on top of your current one.

On top of that, most surge protector manufacturers void the warranty if you daisy-chain them together. In the end, you probably won’t hurt anything if you take the right precautions (making sure extension cords are rated for the power output, etc.

'Bat woman' star wants Stacey Abrams to play villain One strip will have a PC, printer, and phone charger and the other will have a TV, DVR, Xbox, and sound system box.

Add up all the wattage amounts and divide by the line voltage (110 in the US, 220 in the UK). It's likely your outlets are connected to a 12 Gage wire and a 20 amp breaker.

surge protector outlet uline deluxe extension cords
(Source: www.uline.com)

As long as you don't draw more than 20 amps you won't trip the breaker. That said, id split the sound and computer off to a different outlet.

Source(s): yeah I've yet to see a real decent surge protector for small money. Each member of the family has a phone or tablet or another item that needs recharging.

Our need to access multiple outlets to power all this technology is higher than ever. But many homes and offices predate our electronics-dependent lifestyle and are equipped with an inadequate number of outlets.

When that’s the case, people often turn to surge protector power strips. They multiply a single plug into one that can handle half a dozen items.

Some people go a little crazy when it comes to connecting plug strips, installing one in just about every corner of the house. An electrical contractor can install surge protector receptacles in your home or business.

power surge protector strip protectors amazonbasics
(Source: www.wisebread.com)

When you piggyback one surge protector onto another, you’re creating hazardous electrical issues. Interconnecting surge protectors, each with devices plugged into them, then feeding them into a single source at the wall burdens the units.

More electrical current runs through the devices than is safe, causing an overload that has the potential to start a fire or trip a circuit breaker. For a long-term fix, contact Prairie Electric to install a surge protector receptacle.

My neutral in my panel totally failed causing severe electrical dims and surges over a period of a few days. I lost no computers or TV's or other electrical stuff but did loose 4 surge protectors.

Since all four previous protectors did the expected job I really don't think the grounding or not will make a difference. Point to anything attached to it once routed and of course to electrical fuse box as well.

In this method, while that can be done for individual circuits, it's best to route a 3rd wire whenever possible. The benefits are safety, professionally done, and uncovering any possible problems that may have gone undetected.

outlet multipliers adapters plugs monoxide protectors surge protector carbon safety
(Source: www.bidnow.us)

This topic can be read about in any decent DIY electrical book/guide/manual or visit the library and/or internet. However, I strongly urge if done by owner to protect only the immediate AC outlet /circuit of a computer or hi cost electrical devices like TV, etc.

I suggest you list either APC or Triplet support websites on how a surge protector works plus any grounding concerns. Inside each protector is a type of Tenor diode connected to each side of the line and to ground.

When that threshold is reached the diode allows voltage and current to pass to the third wire, ground. A closer inspection showed the third wire...safety ground...attached to the box.

A box of 3 prong sockets + wire + time + a polarity tester......all is well. I have two wires no ground (tested) But I bought a serge protector with a telephone and cable input.

By providing this ground, you've also created a place where electricity might travel in a safety (short circuit) issue within electronics and/or an appliance. Lastly, a surge needs a low impedance return path to the mains electrical panel.

(Source: www.androidheadlines.com)

That does not exist with the “fake” grounds you are relying on (even if they could safely conduct electricity). Since surge protectors are often sold with surge protective elements called MOVE's placed across the L-N, L-G and N-G connections most people will attempt to fit these into residences that don't have the “safety ground”.

An approach would be to rewire the home so 3-wire (prong) outlets can be used but this is often a very costly endeavor and not always possible in a rental. Unfortunately they are more expensive than Mode-2 surge protectors and some still rely on the MOVE for surge protection and still require a low impedance return path.

By way of an analogy to explain what a low impedance return path means, consider a hand gently breaking the surface tension of water & freely moving underneath the water. Now take the same hand, slam it as hard as you can into the water & you’ll encounter a lot of resistance, perhaps it will feel as if you hit a brick wall.

At some frequency the surge hasn’t got a chance & will seek another path perhaps damaging our electronics in the process. That’s why spikes or transients which are often measured in billionths of a second are least likely to find their way, & often zap our electronics instead.

A series mode device slows the surge down so that even if a “high impedance” path exists, it won't matter. Then if you consider the actual protection, with MOVE technology you have passing the surge until a certain voltage is reached and then diverting the surge and hoping for a low impedance return path which is not always present.

surge protector outlet number sears
(Source: www.searspartsdirect.com)

Since series mode uses only the Line to Neutral it's great for older residences. The Best place to deal with coax or TELCO connections is where they enter the residence.

I know you posted this question several years ago, but others reading this may benefit from this information. Once inside, a surge hunts for earth ground destructively via appliances.

Those only claim to protect from tiny surges (often too small to damage appliances). Such as Informatic, Square D, Died, Siemens, Polyphase (an industry benchmark), Sysco, Levi ton, ABB, Delta, Eric, and General Electric.

In each case, a proven solution has a dedicated wire for a low impedance (i.e. less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground. As so well proven by over 100 years of science and experience in homes that do not want damage.

Most of those manufacturers, therefore, recommend supplemental point of use surge protection for sensitive electronics like computers and home theater equipment. Typical point of use suppressors have a surge let-through of about 400V (still too high for sensitive electronics).

surge suppressor appliance brownout bseed protector voltage plug power description
(Source: www.ebay.com)

Choice comes down to partial protection with a whole house surge protector or a layered approach consisting of whole house and point of use protection with series-mode power filters. Fears are created by a series mode protector manufacturer.

Catastrophic failure (and that high voltage) occurs when Move are grossly undersized. Informed consumers earth a 'whole house' protector that does not fail even on direct lightning strikes.

A 50,000 amp specification number says why 'whole house' protectors do not fail catastrophically. MOVE protectors are the best protection and standard throughout the world; when properly sized and earthed.

Reciting sales propaganda from a series mode protector manufacturer as fact is disingenuous. But again, when selling a near zero protector on myths, even that let-though voltage number is an intention lie.

BTW, if those interior generated surges did exist, then a 'whole house' protector eliminates them. Informed consumers spend tens or 100 times less money for a well proven 'whole house' solution.

usb powercube rewirable strip power adapters plug international its portable
(Source: thewirecutter.com)

Look at the Wikipedia entry for Surge _Protector in which you'll find a reference that reads: Seems like everywhere one turns to i.e., manufactures labels (MOVE and Whole House SurgeProtectors), Wikipedia, NIST have all got their information wrong.

Cutler-Hammer says why a 'whole house' protector is so effective: > By utilizing a direct bus bar connection, Cutler-Hammer> PDS achieve the industry's lowest let-through voltage to> effectively suppress both high and low energy transient> events and provide protection for all connected electronic> loads. This design provides superior suppression ratings> and eliminates poor performance that result from poor> cable connections and long lead lengths.

NIST discusses problems when an adjacent protector connects a surge to safety ground. 'Whole house' protector connects to the completely different earth ground.

He refuses to discuss where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Throughout the world and for over 100 years, protection has always been about earthing BEFORE a surge can enter a building.

Numbers he ignored to promote a near zero and obscenely expensive series mode protector. A properly sized 'whole house' protector with a low impedance connection to earth means everything inside is protected.

Underwriter Laboratories (UL) 1449 is the listing a surge suppressor receives when it is tested with the ANSI/IEEE C62.41 waveforms, and it refers to the “let-through voltage” The ratings range from 330 Volts to 6,000 volts. A suppressor that has a let-through voltage of 330 volts when tested with a category A3 waveform may not be any better than a suppressor that has a let through voltage of 400 volts when tested with a category B3 waveform.

Whereas the clamping voltage (in the case of an MOVE based surge suppressor) refers to the voltage threshold at which point the MOVE begins to divert the surge energy. APC further states that the let-through voltage takes the other parts of the surge protection device which may be affected by a surge (i.e. fuses, printed circuit board traces, wiring, etc.).

But for Type 3 SPD’s (cord connected models) they are basically saying that all these other parts adds nothing to the Let-Through Voltage (not true but call it marketing). Underwriters Laboratories rates surge suppressors based on let-through voltage.

No Category waveform information was supplied, so the values are all suspect but let's assume it's okay. Now let’s look at the let-through voltage of a Type 2 Whole House SPD which is installed on the load side of the mains electrical panel.

The actual let-through voltage for the system is measured at the bus bar and is based on two factors: Let’s go back to the numbers I supplied for the Eaton Cutler Hammer CHSPT2ULTRA which sells for $118 at Home Depot.

In my opinion this number is just too high especially if you are relying on a lone Type 2 SPD for surge protection for the entire house. If we look at the Cutler-Hammer Type 2 SPD that uses a direct bus bar connection, the lack of 14 inches of #14 gauge wiring is replaced by about an inch of metal and will add about 15-25 Volts to the Let-Through Voltage which we’ll average out to 20 Volts.

Even this Type 2 SPD would then have a let-through voltage of 520 Volts, a value that may be okay for some electromechanical devices but not for solid-state electronics, microprocessors, TV’s, AV gear, etc … This unit costs around $1139 (used) to $1898 (new) and requires a qualified licensed technician to install and the costs would include labor for installation of the SPD and possible partial or full rewiring of the panel. Only tom_w will tell you that a lone Type 2 SPD is sufficient for surge protection for the entire home.

If tom_w is wrong and damage occurs to your electronics and/or appliances you (not tom_w) have to foot the bill, deal with the SPD warranties, risk loss of use and/or loss or personal data. If tom_w is right, then NIST, the IEEE and MOVE based SPD manufactures who recommend a cascading (layered) approach all wrong.

Again it’s easy to play fast and loose with the facts and the costs associated. Without actually looking at the panel, it’s impossible to quantify the costs for a Type 2 SPD installation, so saying the best protector costs about $1 per protected appliance is grossly misleading.

The OP had a question about using a Type 3 SPD and how his outlet tester indicated that ground was present when a properly grounded coaxial cable was attached to a 3-prong surge protector that was mated to a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter. I’ve outlined all the problems associated with MOVE based surge protectors and offered an alternative solution for a Type 3 SPD (floor model, cord connected or mounted in the wall).

The Institute of Electrical and Electronics (IEEE) C62.41 standard indicates that “6,000 volts is the largest transient that the interior of a building would experience, and that its the harshest interior surge environment is one that would experience 100 surges of 6,000 volts, 3,000 amps in one year’s time. That said, the series mode device that I mentioned as an alternative to Type 3 SPD’s with MOVE technologies would expect to see 100 surges up to a maximum of 6,000 Volts, 3,000 amps with an IEEE Category C1 waveform.

Didn’t have a separate surge protector on your coax cable to the TV? And here’s a classic taken straight from one of the warranty sheets: “Failure due to direct lightning strikes and temporary over-voltage are not covered.” Sigh.

It states the behavior of a Surge Protector completely in a cascaded (layered) solution consisting of a Type 2 at the service entrance and Type 3 SPD's using MOVE technology throughout the home. Clearly the rest of the industry is in total disagreement with your viewpoint and advocate a cascade approach to surge protection.

Voltage surges damage electronic equipment by delivering more voltage than the electronics can handle (similar to too much water pressure to a hose, causing the hose to burst; too much electrical pressure runs through a circuit board, the circuit board “bursts” If a surge does not initially damage the electronics, it will reduce its life span (similar to hot water over an ice cube, the first touch does not melt it… but if enough hot water is poured the ice cube is completely gone).

Eaton recommends two -stage suppression: for all cables entering a home, including power, internet, coaxial and telephone. They cite the IEEE Emerald Book 8.6.3 Large Surge suppression “… For large surge a current, diversion is accomplished in two states: the first diversion should be performed at the service entrance to the building.

Further, reduces surges down to a manageable level for home electronics and protects against internal surges. Protects TV / DVD / VCR, Gaming Systems, Computers / modems / printer / Home Theater, etc … An SPD can not prevent damage caused by a direct lightning strike.

Temporary over-voltage is a rare disturbance caused by a severe fault in the utility power or due to problems with the ground (poor or nonexistent N-G bond). Temporary over-voltage occurs when the VAC exceeds the nominal voltage (120V) for a short duration (millisecond to a few minutes).

So either the Surge Protection industry, NIST and the IEEE are wrong in their approach or tom_w is right. You are lulled into a false sense of security and risk damage to your electronics and/or appliances.

My approach would be to install Type 3 Series Mode Power filters (throughout the home). You can save money by buying them used in the $30-$60 range on the popular auction sites or new from $139 to $159, and you can plug your Type 3 MOVE based surge protector or UPS into a Series Mode power filter to expand the number of available outlets and/or protect the UPS.

Recall that if the house receives a large external surge, the maximum surge energy that would appear on the house wiring assuming the wiring did not vaporize can be suppressed by the series mode power filter. Recall the water analogy here and how the surge is slowed in real time.

The Series Mode power filter works well in homes that have the older 2-prong outlets without a safety ground since the surge energy is dumped on the Neutral and not the Ground. Next I would secure the Coaxial and/or Telephone connections at their respective entrances into the building.

You can use the Eaton CHSPT2 series or if you are handy, a ground block/MMI M311 Hybrid surge arrestor for coax (CATV, Internet, Antennas &/or Satellite Dish). Then I would invest in a Type 2 CHSPT2ULTRA Whole House Surge Protector instead of the more expensive direct bus bar connected SPD.

Now you have a true cascading (layered) solution which is recommended by NIST, the IEEE and manufacturers of Whole House SPD’s. UL and other safety standards use test waveforms (such as ANSI 62.x) to define Type 1, 2 etc protectors.

8000 volts destructively through a nearby TV because a ‘whole house’ protector was not properly earthed. Once inside, a surge goes hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances.

IEEE provides numbers that defines properly earthed protection at 99.5% to 99.9%. Effective protection is where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.

Homeowners are strongly encouraged to inspect their ’primary’ protection layer. Failure of this protection layer means primary voltages (i.e. 4000 or 13,000) can be connected directly into household appliances (well above his 6000 volts).

http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/mtwashington.html > Two direct strikes per year would be about average> on the mountain-more when the weather is especially> bad. With each bolt, up to several hundred thousand> amperes of current flows down whichever tower> happens to be in its path to ground.

Washington's communications facility has> never seen a major equipment loss or power outage> due to lightning or any other discharge-induced cause> in the five years since the new grounding system was> installed. As an important added benefit, power> quality at the site has improved measurably due to a> much-reduced ground potential.

...> Grounding is required to provide the surge protector> with a path to dump the excess energy to earth. A> proper ground system is a mandatory requirement> of surge protection.

Without a proper ground, a> surge protector has no way to disburse the excess> energy and will fail to protect downstream equipment.> Bonding is required to electrically connect together> the various grounds of the services entering the> premises. Without bonding, a surge may still enter a> premise after firing over a surge protector, which> will attempt to pass the excess energy to its ground> with any additional energy that the services surge > protector ground cannot instantly handle, traveling> into and through protected equipment, damaging> that equipment in the process.

As such, the excess> energy remains in the ground system until dissipated, > sparing the protected equipment from damage. When a whole house> primary surge protector is installed at the service> entrance, it will provide a solid first line of defense> against surges which enter from the power company's> service entrance feed.

At KDKA-TV, my> other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every> time there's a thunderstorm. If makes you feel easier, remove any bias by a surge protection manufacturing company and just consider that both the IEEE and NIST have recommended a cascade (layering) approach to surge protection for a home, with a unit at the service entrance and point of use devices throughout the home.

IEEE (The Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) states that 6000V is the largest transient that the interior of a building would experience. A federal guideline recommends that a surge protector utilized in a harsh environment should be capable of withstanding 1000 surges of 6000V, 3000A or ten (10) years worth of IEEE’s category B3.

Note any surge that is harsher would cause #14 gauge houses wiring to vaporize, not just melt and at this point you have bigger fish to fry. The point is if you use Type 3 SPD’s that can withstand the harshest surges that can exist in the interior of a building you’ve got something.

The government chose UL (Underwrites Laboratories) to provide the adjunct testing service (in addition to the 1449 safety classification) that will test to the 1000 surge, 600V, 3000A federal protocol. Many manufacturers (all who cared to participate), IEEE, UL, federal engineers, NIST and others worked for a year and a half in developing the Adjunct Classification.

A Class 1, Grade A, Mode 1 (L-N) is optimal, providing the most suppression for the longest time. Sadly no MOVE based SPD manufacturer will submit their device to this test as the results would in all likelihood not be pleasant and would not translate into something that could be used by marketing.

Type 3 in-house point of use MOVE’s could be undersized besides having impedance path return issues. Series mode devices work precisely because they slow the surge down in real time and take the impedance return path issue out of the equation.

Note again, that no one is talking about place a series-mode power filter in a Type 2 location as the first line of protection. As for their (series-mode) sales brochure regarding surges (both internal and external) much of this originates in IEEE and NIST white papers.

I believe that if you have to start somewhere, start with point of use Type 3 SPD’s and if you don’t want to invest in new series mode power filters, consider used or new old stock available on popular auction sites for as little as $30, but often in the $60-$75 range. You don’t have to throw away your old MOVE based Type 3 SPD’s since you can plug them and any UPS into a series mode to provide protection to the UPS or more useful outlet combinations.

Then secure the coaxial & phone connections (if still used) at their respective service entrances to the building, and finally Invest in a decent Type 2 Whole House SPD to protect from external destructive surges.

I think you and I are also in agreement on the use of Type 2 MOVE based SPD at the service entrance being a solid 1st line of defense. The approach I take considers the type of surge that can exist on house wiring and solving that problem first, then securing the coax/phone entrances and lastly adding a Type 2 SPD at the service entrance for electrical protection.

As for the other articles & links you’ve provided, they are nice to read but not really geared for a homeowner, rather mainly to those interested in learning more. The DSL discussion points out all the problems with using point of use Type 3 MOVE based SPD’s sharing a common ground (i.e. contributing to ground contamination).

UL does not rate surge protection or protector life expectancy. Third, direct lightning strikes without damage was routine for over 100 years.

A telephone Central Office will suffer about 100 surges per storm without damage. Munition dumps suffer direct lightning strikes without damage.

Electronics atop the World Trade Center were undamaged by 40 direct lightning strikes annually. Anyone can learn from spec numbers provided for every effective 'whole house' protector.

A near zero (i.e. 600 joules) series mode protector does not claim to protect from lightning. Direct lightning strikes without damage is routine when one learns how it was done even 100 years ago.

Denying by ignoring well proven facts, 100 years of experience, and specification numbers (also known as junk science reasoning) is irrational. So by way of an example, pick a Whole House SPD that one could buy at Lowe's or Home Depot and provide the Brand/Model or Part Number.

Also mentioned were effective solutions from Informatic, Square D, Died, Siemens, Polyphase (an industry benchmark), Sysco, Levi ton, ABB, Delta, Eric, and General Electric. Always has that dedicated wire to make a low impedance connection to earth.

> Can you name one Type 3 SPD for use in a home that> can handle hundreds of Thousands of Joules that you> so often quote? Connected low impedance (i.e. less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground.

Please stop ignoring relevant concepts and numbers such as equipotential, low impedance, single point earth ground, hundreds of thousands of joules, microsecond transients, and the currents found in destructive surges (i.e. 20,000 amps). An effective protector is at least 50,000 amps and (more important) makes a low impedance connection to single point earth ground.

What SPD (Type 1, 2, 3 or 4) can safely handle hundreds of thousands of joules? Please read what was posted, Please stop ignoring perspective (numbers).

Other Articles You Might Be Interested In

01: Ricky Wobbles
02: Rimworld Can You Wipe Out A Faction
03: River Wild Chords Hillsong
04: Kelly Wiggler
05: Kelly Wiggler Ball Tail Shad
06: Kelly Wiggler Dirty Jalapeno
07: Kelly Wiggler Jig Heads
08: Kelly Wiggler Shrimp Tail
09: Kelly Wiggler Tail Dip
10: Kelly Zombro
Sources
1 mylife.com - https://mylife.com/kelly-zombro/e963153972510
2 www.sandiegouniontribune.com - https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/story/2021-01-09/asked-answered-your-questions-about-covid-19
3 www.mylife.com - https://www.mylife.com/kellie-zombro/e785111190492
4 www.nbcsandiego.com - https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/crews-battle-overnight-house-fire-in-la-jolla/2382333/
5 www.intelius.com - https://www.intelius.com/people-search/Kelly-Zimbro
6 www.legacy.com - https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/timesunion/obituary.aspx